There are good arguments for immigration but this isn't it. Culture does matter. We see in Europe and, because there is less Muslim immigration here, that many Muslims do not assimilate and do not adopt Western liberalism as their new default. Progressives bend over backwards to pretend otherwise. Conflating religion with ethnicity, Progressives blind themselves to the well documented illiberal assertiveness of Islam. Countries such as France and Germany have large Muslim enclaves that are "no go" zones for everyone else including law enforcement.
Texas is built on migrants, from its inception to today. Houston is Exhibit A in multicultural integration. There are material differences in outlook and openness between Hispanic, Asian, Hindu and non-Muslim Africans arrivals and an identifiable cohort of rigid Muslim adherents. Hard fact. We need to be honest with ourselves and each other.
I knew someone would come back with this, but let me ask a question.
Why are these Muslim immigrants coming to countries that do not share their values? Sure they can make some money, but in return they have to live in a country that does not appreciate or value the way they want to live their lives and is going to try to convince their children to live according to Western liberalism. I'm going to ask you to do what the post does and think of them not as cargo but as people making their own decisions.
Is it all economic? Maybe, but then these are people self-selected to value money over their own religious and cultural practices, at least to some extent. What's your perception of what's going on?
My perception is not yours, for sure. Nor does your perception map on to any immigrant culture, particularly Islam. How you or the author perceive others will not cause those others to remake themselves in the image you project. Likewise, economics is a sometimes default Progressives turn to as an explanation for group behavior but other, more realistic observers give weight to culture, customs and religion as heavy elements in the mix of what drives group and individual behavior.
If you are looking for a motivator for why people leave Syria or Somalia, just look at their options: starve, die or leave. Which would you pick?
If you honestly believe that these people are also budding adherents of western liberalism, fine. Reality begs to differ. Take a hard look at Sweden as yet another example of Muslim immigration plays out. For quite a while, many Swedes played make believe. That’s no longer the case. The German establishment continues to play make believe but the voters increasingly aren't having it. It's a bitter pill to swallow for Progressives, steeped as they are in third world multiculturalism. If it helps any, try thinking of Muslims the way you think of Christians.
Man, it feels like you're rushing ahead to shove an argument in my mouth. For the sake of this discussion, I'm believing YOU. I'm going to take you at your word that they're not adherents of western liberalism, that they love oppression and dominating women and honor killings and whatever.
But then why do these people want to live in France, Germany, or Sweden? You said their options to get out of Syria/Somalia are starve, die, or leave. Okay that makes sense, but there's a lot of other Muslim countries they can go to. If Islam is the most important thing in your life, why would you want to go to France rather than Turkey? What is going on in their heads here that makes them think, "I love Allah above all things... so obviously Germany is the place for me!"
[If it helps any, try thinking of Muslims the way you think of Christians.]
Okay, sure, If I'm a hardcore Christian forced out of my country due to a civil war, would I rather take my family to a wealthy Muslim nation or a poor Christian one? If I have to go to the wealthy Muslim nation, do I want to stay there or do I want to get my family out as soon as I reasonably can before my son starts checking out mosques?
Strong agree with all of this straightforwardly. But also, it's helpful to bear the broader macro-picture in mind. Our main geopolitical rival has 5x our population, but a comparatively weak domestic economy relative to its (government-subsidized) export dominance. One of our major structural advantages involves not just the ability to attract the world's most talented people — it specifically involves the ability to 'poach' some of the world's most talented people *from our major geopolitical rival*. The thing we very much need not to do is structurally cut ourselves off from the one real structural solution to our topline demographic disadvantage.
Immigrants come here for the economic opportunity, not because they’re excited to vote. Whatever correlations exist between the desire to migrate and liking democracy, the draw of our money and lifestyle are 100x greater.
Otherwise, migrants would be thrilled to arrive in Mexico — a democracy — or countless other safe countries that have elections.
Whether immigrants arrive with incompatible values and culture depends a lot on selection. There are many variables that predict success and assimilation — but the system Democrats want ensures those variables aren’t even considered, because they want anyone who manages to arrive here to stay forever.
Meanwhile, the UK government had to create a guide for asylum seekers warning them not to rape women or try to stop them from doing schoolwork:
How much of this is just immigrants saying what they think they need to say?
I’m sure if you polled the vast migrant worker populations of the Gulf monarchies on whether they support the absolute monarch’s absolute authority to do whatever he wants, they’d say “Yes, of course, a thousand blessings on the Emir”
There are good arguments for immigration but this isn't it. Culture does matter. We see in Europe and, because there is less Muslim immigration here, that many Muslims do not assimilate and do not adopt Western liberalism as their new default. Progressives bend over backwards to pretend otherwise. Conflating religion with ethnicity, Progressives blind themselves to the well documented illiberal assertiveness of Islam. Countries such as France and Germany have large Muslim enclaves that are "no go" zones for everyone else including law enforcement.
Texas is built on migrants, from its inception to today. Houston is Exhibit A in multicultural integration. There are material differences in outlook and openness between Hispanic, Asian, Hindu and non-Muslim Africans arrivals and an identifiable cohort of rigid Muslim adherents. Hard fact. We need to be honest with ourselves and each other.
Muslims do assimilate to U.S. values.
https://www.cato.org/blog/muslims-rapidly-adopt-us-social-political-values
https://www.cato.org/blog/muslim-immigrants-assimilate-even-more-polls-muslims-indicate
What is the "Western Liberalism" Muslim immigrants aren't adopting?
Bizarre question. Women's rights, gay equality, religious pluralism, secularism.
I knew someone would come back with this, but let me ask a question.
Why are these Muslim immigrants coming to countries that do not share their values? Sure they can make some money, but in return they have to live in a country that does not appreciate or value the way they want to live their lives and is going to try to convince their children to live according to Western liberalism. I'm going to ask you to do what the post does and think of them not as cargo but as people making their own decisions.
Is it all economic? Maybe, but then these are people self-selected to value money over their own religious and cultural practices, at least to some extent. What's your perception of what's going on?
My perception is not yours, for sure. Nor does your perception map on to any immigrant culture, particularly Islam. How you or the author perceive others will not cause those others to remake themselves in the image you project. Likewise, economics is a sometimes default Progressives turn to as an explanation for group behavior but other, more realistic observers give weight to culture, customs and religion as heavy elements in the mix of what drives group and individual behavior.
If you are looking for a motivator for why people leave Syria or Somalia, just look at their options: starve, die or leave. Which would you pick?
If you honestly believe that these people are also budding adherents of western liberalism, fine. Reality begs to differ. Take a hard look at Sweden as yet another example of Muslim immigration plays out. For quite a while, many Swedes played make believe. That’s no longer the case. The German establishment continues to play make believe but the voters increasingly aren't having it. It's a bitter pill to swallow for Progressives, steeped as they are in third world multiculturalism. If it helps any, try thinking of Muslims the way you think of Christians.
Man, it feels like you're rushing ahead to shove an argument in my mouth. For the sake of this discussion, I'm believing YOU. I'm going to take you at your word that they're not adherents of western liberalism, that they love oppression and dominating women and honor killings and whatever.
But then why do these people want to live in France, Germany, or Sweden? You said their options to get out of Syria/Somalia are starve, die, or leave. Okay that makes sense, but there's a lot of other Muslim countries they can go to. If Islam is the most important thing in your life, why would you want to go to France rather than Turkey? What is going on in their heads here that makes them think, "I love Allah above all things... so obviously Germany is the place for me!"
[If it helps any, try thinking of Muslims the way you think of Christians.]
Okay, sure, If I'm a hardcore Christian forced out of my country due to a civil war, would I rather take my family to a wealthy Muslim nation or a poor Christian one? If I have to go to the wealthy Muslim nation, do I want to stay there or do I want to get my family out as soon as I reasonably can before my son starts checking out mosques?
Strong agree with all of this straightforwardly. But also, it's helpful to bear the broader macro-picture in mind. Our main geopolitical rival has 5x our population, but a comparatively weak domestic economy relative to its (government-subsidized) export dominance. One of our major structural advantages involves not just the ability to attract the world's most talented people — it specifically involves the ability to 'poach' some of the world's most talented people *from our major geopolitical rival*. The thing we very much need not to do is structurally cut ourselves off from the one real structural solution to our topline demographic disadvantage.
Immigrants come here for the economic opportunity, not because they’re excited to vote. Whatever correlations exist between the desire to migrate and liking democracy, the draw of our money and lifestyle are 100x greater.
Otherwise, migrants would be thrilled to arrive in Mexico — a democracy — or countless other safe countries that have elections.
Whether immigrants arrive with incompatible values and culture depends a lot on selection. There are many variables that predict success and assimilation — but the system Democrats want ensures those variables aren’t even considered, because they want anyone who manages to arrive here to stay forever.
Meanwhile, the UK government had to create a guide for asylum seekers warning them not to rape women or try to stop them from doing schoolwork:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6a84555dc9205b515d421e22/COB_summary_booklet_FINAL_web.pdf
How much of this is just immigrants saying what they think they need to say?
I’m sure if you polled the vast migrant worker populations of the Gulf monarchies on whether they support the absolute monarch’s absolute authority to do whatever he wants, they’d say “Yes, of course, a thousand blessings on the Emir”
The population polled wasn't immigrants. It was "those who want to immigrate."