Here's what I wonder about: "If everything else stayed the same, but every human being in America spent 45 minutes more a day hanging out with their friends, I don’t think that would result in massive political, cultural, or social change."
In 2020, I changed from working in an office to working from home - same type of employer, same type of technical role. But it's probably meant 3 hours a week less of random conversations with somewhat random colleagues - I talk to colleagues almost as much, but it's all people I'm working with, not "other people who are on the same floor".
One thing I notice: I just hear about a fewer things. Not just work things, but soccer leagues and interesting restaurants and school mini-dramas and random recreational events involving things I don't do. I suspect - and have no evidence - that this over time and on average will lead to less weak connections. And those large networks of weak connections tend to be important to driving social change.
I've been a subscriber since February, because at least once a month, someone, usually Jerusalem, writes something that makes me think, that alone was worth $9. This month it was, "Derek Thompson — perhaps best known as a columnist for The Argument". Looking forward to listening to the podcast!
I think about it a lot with my 10-year old daughter. They consume too much information and don't spend enough time in contemplation, analyzing what they just learned. They basically repeat what they consume. I feel like my biggest role as a parent is forcing her to think about what she has consumed.
Another thing I think about a lot is lines. Growing up you used to have to wait in lines a lot more. Technology has eliminated most lines and now when people are forced to stand in lines, they are often entertaining themselves with access to their phones. But growing up, lines were a time to reflect and think. To meet new people. To interact with random strangers who may be completely different from you, but had the same purpose, to collect whatever was at the end of the line. I particularly think about this in the context of the SNL parody videos about people standing in lines in Manhattan and not knowing what's at the end of the line. Oddly, I don't think its that crazy for people to enjoy just standing in line. Maybe the people mocking them are the ones who actually have their priorities messed up and the people in the line are the ones who have figured out a key to happiness.
Yes! The year I turned 40 was the same year the Black Hills Motor Classic (aka Sturgis Motorcycle Rally) turned 50. I rode my Harley alone from CO to SD and stayed in a tiny house alone. I felt alone, and lonely, in the midst of the throng. I felt I didn’t fit in and didn’t belong there. I called my wife and said I was coming home. She said, “That’s crazy. You and every other motorcycle nut there have a lot in common. Talk to somebody!” I had to at least try. So, while standing in a restaurant line I turned around and spoke to the couple behind me, “Where y’all from?” Turned out to be one of the best and most fun adventures of my life. The experiences I had that week and the characters I met inspired wonderful stories, photographs and memories, eventually becoming one piece in the puzzle of a life well-lived.
15 years ago (or so) my wife and I took at trip to the Wadi Rum in Jordan and we were at a camp with like 15 other people from all over the world. There was no cell service. Nothing to do other than talk to each other, one person had a sitar and played music, and just enjoy the stars. It was an amazing experience. People really are wonderful and kind if you approach them with kindness.
"I think friends and family are really useful for when things feel shitty" -- I want to pick this one phrase of Mr. Thompson's out to consider a point I think this conversation misses.
Putnam's work was not just about aloneness. It was about a loss of civic culture on the micro-level, where people engaged to be productive together. And a lot of that was community engagement: things like strong PTA groups, lodges like the Rotary Clubs, religious good-works groups, etc., which often bridged social class and mixed rewards of social entertainment and social responsibility. The function of these groups was to strengthen a sense that individual participants felt that part of their identity was as members of a constructive community dynamic, one where members watched out for one another and created formal and informal safety nets, helping those with few resources in the community, and being reliably available to help one another as individuals when help was needed. The metaphor of community as an extension of family was more valid.
Much as I appreciate the brainstorming in this conversation, I don't think the type of loneliness discussed here is very relevant to the structural analysis in Putnam's work (as I recall it! -- I read two of his books -- "Our Kids" is the other -- but a long time ago). And that may be because as we move further and further away from the community structures that Putnam understood were crumbling there are fewer and fewer people who experienced them personally and understood how living within a culture where these types of support networks were pervasive created a more bonded life experience.
To return to Mr. Thompson's quote, above: Putnam's claim seemed to me to be that the now diminished structures of civic life added an in-real-life networked "identity" component to a large share of the population's members which made them feel less vulnerable (help surrounded them), more socially deserving (many were habitual helpers), and more broadly socially skilled within a local context, so when shitty times hit they had more "family" to fall back on, and knowing that would be so made ordinary times a stronger bulwark against falling into worse times.
Geez it's no wonder you guys are alone - just reread the part on Covid. did you miss the Dr. Fauci diary where he talked about fame and how he moved the Stock market or made nurses giggle? Maybe you missed it because you watch CNN. Here in Dallas, Tx Children's hospital has 488 beds . They currently are building, with UT Southwestern, a $4 billion new hospital - there are children here. Oh and 5 Noble winners at UTSW. You consider reading and intellect GREAT - what about leaving the house and helping others.... we call it volunteering. For all your efforts you never stop having groups who want Socialism as a political principle at CNN and high brow government ideas. Marx was a genius but only where an abusive form of government was able to enforce his ideas.
This piece reads like every form of think tank literature - it's the ideas that matter not the through put.
I like this framing of content. Anything that fires up the analytical part of your brain, your "system two," is very different than "system one" content, to use the Daniel Kahneman definitions.
Here's what I wonder about: "If everything else stayed the same, but every human being in America spent 45 minutes more a day hanging out with their friends, I don’t think that would result in massive political, cultural, or social change."
In 2020, I changed from working in an office to working from home - same type of employer, same type of technical role. But it's probably meant 3 hours a week less of random conversations with somewhat random colleagues - I talk to colleagues almost as much, but it's all people I'm working with, not "other people who are on the same floor".
One thing I notice: I just hear about a fewer things. Not just work things, but soccer leagues and interesting restaurants and school mini-dramas and random recreational events involving things I don't do. I suspect - and have no evidence - that this over time and on average will lead to less weak connections. And those large networks of weak connections tend to be important to driving social change.
I've been a subscriber since February, because at least once a month, someone, usually Jerusalem, writes something that makes me think, that alone was worth $9. This month it was, "Derek Thompson — perhaps best known as a columnist for The Argument". Looking forward to listening to the podcast!
I call this a "consumption crisis".
I think about it a lot with my 10-year old daughter. They consume too much information and don't spend enough time in contemplation, analyzing what they just learned. They basically repeat what they consume. I feel like my biggest role as a parent is forcing her to think about what she has consumed.
Another thing I think about a lot is lines. Growing up you used to have to wait in lines a lot more. Technology has eliminated most lines and now when people are forced to stand in lines, they are often entertaining themselves with access to their phones. But growing up, lines were a time to reflect and think. To meet new people. To interact with random strangers who may be completely different from you, but had the same purpose, to collect whatever was at the end of the line. I particularly think about this in the context of the SNL parody videos about people standing in lines in Manhattan and not knowing what's at the end of the line. Oddly, I don't think its that crazy for people to enjoy just standing in line. Maybe the people mocking them are the ones who actually have their priorities messed up and the people in the line are the ones who have figured out a key to happiness.
“Another thing I think about a lot is lines.”
Yes! The year I turned 40 was the same year the Black Hills Motor Classic (aka Sturgis Motorcycle Rally) turned 50. I rode my Harley alone from CO to SD and stayed in a tiny house alone. I felt alone, and lonely, in the midst of the throng. I felt I didn’t fit in and didn’t belong there. I called my wife and said I was coming home. She said, “That’s crazy. You and every other motorcycle nut there have a lot in common. Talk to somebody!” I had to at least try. So, while standing in a restaurant line I turned around and spoke to the couple behind me, “Where y’all from?” Turned out to be one of the best and most fun adventures of my life. The experiences I had that week and the characters I met inspired wonderful stories, photographs and memories, eventually becoming one piece in the puzzle of a life well-lived.
Love this.
15 years ago (or so) my wife and I took at trip to the Wadi Rum in Jordan and we were at a camp with like 15 other people from all over the world. There was no cell service. Nothing to do other than talk to each other, one person had a sitar and played music, and just enjoy the stars. It was an amazing experience. People really are wonderful and kind if you approach them with kindness.
"I think friends and family are really useful for when things feel shitty" -- I want to pick this one phrase of Mr. Thompson's out to consider a point I think this conversation misses.
Putnam's work was not just about aloneness. It was about a loss of civic culture on the micro-level, where people engaged to be productive together. And a lot of that was community engagement: things like strong PTA groups, lodges like the Rotary Clubs, religious good-works groups, etc., which often bridged social class and mixed rewards of social entertainment and social responsibility. The function of these groups was to strengthen a sense that individual participants felt that part of their identity was as members of a constructive community dynamic, one where members watched out for one another and created formal and informal safety nets, helping those with few resources in the community, and being reliably available to help one another as individuals when help was needed. The metaphor of community as an extension of family was more valid.
Much as I appreciate the brainstorming in this conversation, I don't think the type of loneliness discussed here is very relevant to the structural analysis in Putnam's work (as I recall it! -- I read two of his books -- "Our Kids" is the other -- but a long time ago). And that may be because as we move further and further away from the community structures that Putnam understood were crumbling there are fewer and fewer people who experienced them personally and understood how living within a culture where these types of support networks were pervasive created a more bonded life experience.
To return to Mr. Thompson's quote, above: Putnam's claim seemed to me to be that the now diminished structures of civic life added an in-real-life networked "identity" component to a large share of the population's members which made them feel less vulnerable (help surrounded them), more socially deserving (many were habitual helpers), and more broadly socially skilled within a local context, so when shitty times hit they had more "family" to fall back on, and knowing that would be so made ordinary times a stronger bulwark against falling into worse times.
Geez it's no wonder you guys are alone - just reread the part on Covid. did you miss the Dr. Fauci diary where he talked about fame and how he moved the Stock market or made nurses giggle? Maybe you missed it because you watch CNN. Here in Dallas, Tx Children's hospital has 488 beds . They currently are building, with UT Southwestern, a $4 billion new hospital - there are children here. Oh and 5 Noble winners at UTSW. You consider reading and intellect GREAT - what about leaving the house and helping others.... we call it volunteering. For all your efforts you never stop having groups who want Socialism as a political principle at CNN and high brow government ideas. Marx was a genius but only where an abusive form of government was able to enforce his ideas.
This piece reads like every form of think tank literature - it's the ideas that matter not the through put.
wowwwwwwwww
I like this framing of content. Anything that fires up the analytical part of your brain, your "system two," is very different than "system one" content, to use the Daniel Kahneman definitions.