When the Supreme Court rejected affirmative action at colleges and universities in 2023, finding that Harvard and the University of North Carolina practiced race-based discrimination against Asian American students, Chief Justice John Roberts wrote, “eliminating racial discrimination means eliminating all of it.”
The case, decided along ideological lines, caused a stir among progressives.
But was this discrimination the inevitable consequence of affirmative action policies? Or did it simply give cover to people with genuinely racist beliefs?
“The core problem with affirmative action — how it was being practiced, particularly at Harvard — is that they were just being racist to Asians … What was happening was not just like, ‘Oh, we’re all well-meaning people trying to improve [society].’ These people had racist views about Asian Americans,” declared Jerusalem Demsas in The Argument’s premiere podcast episode.
In this heated conversation, Matthew Yglesias and Jerusalem tackled affirmative action, an increasingly unpopular policy. And the Harvard case sits at the heart of the debate.
“In a basic way,” lamented Matt, “it is not a good idea to be slotting people into racial and ethnic categories and judging them on that basis. It’s not fair to people, and it’s not healthy for society.”
New episodes post every Thursday.
You can find The Argument on Substack, YouTube, and wherever you get your podcasts.
Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Overcast | Pocket Casts
Further reading:
“Diversifying Society’s Leaders? The Determinants and Causal Effects of Admission to Highly Selective Private Colleges” by Raj Chetty, David J. Deming, and John N. Friedman
“Breaking Systemic Barriers: Being Black in the Aquatic Sciences and Related Fields” by Lauren Pharr
“Smartphones, Online Music Streaming, and Traffic Fatalities” by Vishal R. Patel, Christopher M. Worsham, Michael Liu, and Anupam B. Jena
Corrections:
At 0:05:36, Matt says “LSAT flunk rates” when he means “bar exam flunk rates.”
At 0:07:06, Jerusalem says “data from Sander’s” when she means “data from Sander’s critics.”
At 0:18:46, Jerusalem says Raj Chetty’s data shows that attending an elite school “doubles” the likelihood of reaching the top income quintile when she means “increases by 50%.”
Show notes:
Research showing Black patients have better health outcomes in areas with more Black doctors: JAMA Network Open study, JAMA Network Open study
Research showing Black doctors are more likely to choose primary care specialties than their white counterparts: Journal of the National Medical Association study, Association of American Medical Colleges (AAMC) study
Coverage of U.S. shortage of primary care doctors: Harvard Health Publishing article, AAMC study
Research showing the presence of Black judges on a federal appellate panel changes behavior of their non-Black colleagues: Princeton study, Crime & Delinquency study
Research on India’s caste-based reservation system: International Journal of Law study
Research showing presence of female legislators in India makes female constituents’ concerns more likely to be heard: Cambridge University Press study
Research showing this increases water and road infrastructure: Econometrica study
Research on mismatch effect in law schools: Journal of College and University Law article, ABA Journal article, Journal of Legal Education article
Research on selective school enrollment only having a significant effect on lifetime earnings if the student comes from a disadvantaged background: National Bureau of Economic Research working paper, National Bureau of Economic Research working paper
Coverage of decrease in professional diversity after California’s affirmative action law was struck down: NPR article, Berkeley Law study, Industrial and Labor Relations Review study
Coverage of Elizabeth Warren taking a DNA test to demonstrate Native American ancestry and subsequently apologizing The New York Times article, The Washington Post article, NPR article
Raj Chetty, David Deming, and John Friedman research showing large effects of attending elite schools: NBER working paper
Coverage of future-President Obama saying his daughters didn’t need affirmative action assistance: Politico article, The Seattle Times opinion article, The New York Times article
Coverage of President Clinton campaigning on a promise to “mend not end” affirmative action: The New York Times article, The Baltimore Sun article
Coverage of Harvard admissions discriminating against Asian Americans: European Economic Review article, Harvard Law Review article
Article by Judge Glock describing how firms promote minority leaders in order to obtain contracts set aside for “disadvantaged” companies: City Journal article
Coverage of men getting an advantage in college admissions because of gender imbalances: The New York Times Magazine article, New York Post article
2021 argument that marine biology needed more diversity: Coastwatch magazine article
Where Do We Go From Here: Chaos or Community? by Martin Luther King, Jr.
Coverage of affirmative action gaining momentum during Kennedy and LBJ administrations: UCI Office of Equal Opportunity and Diversity brief
Books by Richard Kahlenberg on affirmative action:
The Remedy: Class, Race, And Affirmative Action, 1996: Goodreads page
Class Matters: The Fight to Get Beyond Race Preferences, Reduce Inequality, and Build Real Diversity at America’s Colleges, 2025: Goodreads page
Coverage of Texas’ “Top 10% Rule,” which initially stated that anyone in the top 10% of their high school class was automatically admitted to UT Austin. The rule has since been amended to the top 6% being admitted to UT Austin: UT News article, Texas Comptroller program page
Peer ReviewTM study: “Smartphones, Online Music Streaming, and Traffic Fatalities,” by Vishal R. Patel, Christopher M. Worsham, Michael Liu & Anupam B. Jena: NBER working paper
Public opinion data on self-driving cars: The Argument polling, Pew Research Center polling, Brookings article
Coverage of voice-activated devices proving distracting for drivers: AAA study, ABC News article
(Illustration by The Argument, image by Harvard University)
